<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Reminder: Money Flows To The Writer</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.robertswartwood.com/rants/reminder-money-flows-to-the-writer/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.robertswartwood.com/rants/reminder-money-flows-to-the-writer/</link>
	<description>Occasional News, Insights, Rants, and Other Miscellaneous Stuff</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 14:15:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.robertswartwood.com/rants/reminder-money-flows-to-the-writer/#comment-1000</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertswartwood.com/?p=597#comment-1000</guid>
		<description>Non-profit only means that after you pay everyone, anything that is left over is either plowed back into the company or invested on behalf of the company. Doesn&#039;t matter how much they make. Although $200,000 gross income is huge for an online venture. That NEA grant of 10K really is small potatoes to them. I wonder why they bothered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Non-profit only means that after you pay everyone, anything that is left over is either plowed back into the company or invested on behalf of the company. Doesn&#8217;t matter how much they make. Although $200,000 gross income is huge for an online venture. That NEA grant of 10K really is small potatoes to them. I wonder why they bothered.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Barry</title>
		<link>http://www.robertswartwood.com/rants/reminder-money-flows-to-the-writer/#comment-577</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 18:20:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertswartwood.com/?p=597#comment-577</guid>
		<description>Seems to me that if they had a +$200,000 year in 06 (or any year, for that matter) that they should no longer be able to claim non-profit status. . .but whatever...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to me that if they had a +$200,000 year in 06 (or any year, for that matter) that they should no longer be able to claim non-profit status. . .but whatever&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kelly Lynn Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.robertswartwood.com/rants/reminder-money-flows-to-the-writer/#comment-575</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly Lynn Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 19:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertswartwood.com/?p=597#comment-575</guid>
		<description>I think all writers should care about things like this, because ultimately it can affect all of us.  There are so many scams and traps out there aimed at writers--and there are so many wannabe writers who are so desperate for publication that they will always fall for them--that I think we all need to be extra vigilant.  Allowing one publication or scam to continue makes it &quot;okay&quot; for others to pop up--If Narrative gets away with this, it sets a precedent.  

Of course, aside from being vocal and spreading the word, there isn&#039;t much anyone can do about something like Narrative, but writers are already paid so little that we can&#039;t afford not to care.  

Ultimately, I think it&#039;s a problem of respect.  I feel that few people really respect writers, partly because anyone can start up a blog and be a &quot;writer.&quot;  If anyone can do it, why should people respect the craft or the profession?  Of course the difference between Joe Schmoe setting up a blog and a skilled author who spends time, effort and soul on her writing is huge, but many don&#039;t see that (although many do).  From a publication&#039;s perspective, writers who are willing to work for negative cash flow will always be around.  &quot;Real&quot; writers who can and do make a living on their work sit around and let this happen, because I think sometimes we don&#039;t respect ourselves enough.

I really think anyone who wants to make a genuine living--or at least get some money for their work--needs to be vocal about this, because the only way pubs will stop abusing writers is when we stop LETTING them abuse us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think all writers should care about things like this, because ultimately it can affect all of us.  There are so many scams and traps out there aimed at writers&#8211;and there are so many wannabe writers who are so desperate for publication that they will always fall for them&#8211;that I think we all need to be extra vigilant.  Allowing one publication or scam to continue makes it &#8220;okay&#8221; for others to pop up&#8211;If Narrative gets away with this, it sets a precedent.  </p>
<p>Of course, aside from being vocal and spreading the word, there isn&#8217;t much anyone can do about something like Narrative, but writers are already paid so little that we can&#8217;t afford not to care.  </p>
<p>Ultimately, I think it&#8217;s a problem of respect.  I feel that few people really respect writers, partly because anyone can start up a blog and be a &#8220;writer.&#8221;  If anyone can do it, why should people respect the craft or the profession?  Of course the difference between Joe Schmoe setting up a blog and a skilled author who spends time, effort and soul on her writing is huge, but many don&#8217;t see that (although many do).  From a publication&#8217;s perspective, writers who are willing to work for negative cash flow will always be around.  &#8220;Real&#8221; writers who can and do make a living on their work sit around and let this happen, because I think sometimes we don&#8217;t respect ourselves enough.</p>
<p>I really think anyone who wants to make a genuine living&#8211;or at least get some money for their work&#8211;needs to be vocal about this, because the only way pubs will stop abusing writers is when we stop LETTING them abuse us.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jason Jordan</title>
		<link>http://www.robertswartwood.com/rants/reminder-money-flows-to-the-writer/#comment-569</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 06:11:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertswartwood.com/?p=597#comment-569</guid>
		<description>Plus, even though I&#039;ve heard that Narrative publishes good work--I haven&#039;t read much of it, tbh--there are also a thousand other places that do too, so avoiding one market isn&#039;t doing a huge disservice to yourself if you don&#039;t agree with its practices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Plus, even though I&#8217;ve heard that Narrative publishes good work&#8211;I haven&#8217;t read much of it, tbh&#8211;there are also a thousand other places that do too, so avoiding one market isn&#8217;t doing a huge disservice to yourself if you don&#8217;t agree with its practices.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.robertswartwood.com/rants/reminder-money-flows-to-the-writer/#comment-568</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 23:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertswartwood.com/?p=597#comment-568</guid>
		<description>Amen, Robert.  I don&#039;t know which is worse - charging $20 for a writer (who most likely won&#039;t get in since they have an acceptance rate of less than 1%) or paying them that money.  As much as they publish great writing, I find the whole thing kind of disgusting.  You&#039;ll never see my work in Narrative, I can guarantee you that.  Thanks for posting this up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen, Robert.  I don&#8217;t know which is worse &#8211; charging $20 for a writer (who most likely won&#8217;t get in since they have an acceptance rate of less than 1%) or paying them that money.  As much as they publish great writing, I find the whole thing kind of disgusting.  You&#8217;ll never see my work in Narrative, I can guarantee you that.  Thanks for posting this up.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jeremy D Brooks</title>
		<link>http://www.robertswartwood.com/rants/reminder-money-flows-to-the-writer/#comment-566</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy D Brooks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertswartwood.com/?p=597#comment-566</guid>
		<description>Reading fee. pssshhhht.

If you pay a fee, you should be receiving a product or service. If they aren&#039;t giving editorial advice, they shouldn&#039;t be charging money--I don&#039;t give a **** if they are a non-profit. 

Is it to benefit writers? That may be the intention--but, as has been pointed out ad nauseum this year: being listed with a &quot;good&quot; magazine does not necessarily help you sell more stories in the future.

Is it to benefit literature in general?  That, too, may be the intention--but, then, you&#039;re forcing payment from the very people you&#039;re trying to help: underpaid content producers.

Museums charge visitors, not artists. Theaters charge patrons, not actors. Newspapers charge readers, not journalists. I can&#039;t think of a single business model--for profit or non--that charges the supplier. Or, in this case, charges all potential suppliers, but only pays the one it picks to deliver services.

(Audition fees? I-only-need-one-worker-today-but-I&#039;ll-read-your-resume-for-a-sawbuck deals? Those just sound like internet scams, don&#039;t they?)

It does look like they pay well; but charging writers to pay other writers yet giving consumers the content for free just seems dumb. It feels upside down.  It feels like a cannibalistic business model. No, not even that--it feels like auto cannibalism--digesting your own flesh to grow more flesh, all for the benefit of spectators who want to watch some sick mother****er gnawing on his own arm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading fee. pssshhhht.</p>
<p>If you pay a fee, you should be receiving a product or service. If they aren&#8217;t giving editorial advice, they shouldn&#8217;t be charging money&#8211;I don&#8217;t give a **** if they are a non-profit. </p>
<p>Is it to benefit writers? That may be the intention&#8211;but, as has been pointed out ad nauseum this year: being listed with a &#8220;good&#8221; magazine does not necessarily help you sell more stories in the future.</p>
<p>Is it to benefit literature in general?  That, too, may be the intention&#8211;but, then, you&#8217;re forcing payment from the very people you&#8217;re trying to help: underpaid content producers.</p>
<p>Museums charge visitors, not artists. Theaters charge patrons, not actors. Newspapers charge readers, not journalists. I can&#8217;t think of a single business model&#8211;for profit or non&#8211;that charges the supplier. Or, in this case, charges all potential suppliers, but only pays the one it picks to deliver services.</p>
<p>(Audition fees? I-only-need-one-worker-today-but-I&#8217;ll-read-your-resume-for-a-sawbuck deals? Those just sound like internet scams, don&#8217;t they?)</p>
<p>It does look like they pay well; but charging writers to pay other writers yet giving consumers the content for free just seems dumb. It feels upside down.  It feels like a cannibalistic business model. No, not even that&#8211;it feels like auto cannibalism&#8211;digesting your own flesh to grow more flesh, all for the benefit of spectators who want to watch some sick mother****er gnawing on his own arm.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Swartwood</title>
		<link>http://www.robertswartwood.com/rants/reminder-money-flows-to-the-writer/#comment-562</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Swartwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 06:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertswartwood.com/?p=597#comment-562</guid>
		<description>Great stuff, Jason. Thanks for all the links!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great stuff, Jason. Thanks for all the links!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Swartwood</title>
		<link>http://www.robertswartwood.com/rants/reminder-money-flows-to-the-writer/#comment-561</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Swartwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 05:31:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertswartwood.com/?p=597#comment-561</guid>
		<description>I like that last part a lot, Nick. 

Admittedly, I don&#039;t know much about the SFWA, but I&#039;ve known a lot of people in the HWA, and while they may have changed things recently, from what I remember it seemed to be a bunch of back and forth bitching on the message boards (not to mention the usual look-at-me-I&#039;m-published-here stuff). Kind of like the Shocklines message boards, only you have to pay a yearly membership fee. 

That&#039;s not to say I don&#039;t see the benefit of writer&#039;s organizations, because they do have their benefits. Just some more so than others. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like that last part a lot, Nick. </p>
<p>Admittedly, I don&#8217;t know much about the SFWA, but I&#8217;ve known a lot of people in the HWA, and while they may have changed things recently, from what I remember it seemed to be a bunch of back and forth bitching on the message boards (not to mention the usual look-at-me-I&#8217;m-published-here stuff). Kind of like the Shocklines message boards, only you have to pay a yearly membership fee. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s not to say I don&#8217;t see the benefit of writer&#8217;s organizations, because they do have their benefits. Just some more so than others. <img src='http://www.robertswartwood.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nick Mamatas</title>
		<link>http://www.robertswartwood.com/rants/reminder-money-flows-to-the-writer/#comment-560</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Mamatas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 05:23:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertswartwood.com/?p=597#comment-560</guid>
		<description>Good one!

Just a note on &quot;pro&quot; magazines and the professional associations like SFWA and HWA. These orgs base their vision of pro only on money and various other elements (circulation, frequency of publication) for the simple reason that they aren&#039;t in the aesthetics business.  A number of self-published people have fumed over the years that all the money they make from donations for their blog stories should count, but...why? The point of joining one of these orgs is to be able to sic their grievance committees or lawyers on publishers for breaching contract, bouncing checks, etc.  So someone making money from direct donations has nobody to sue. Poets, who generally sell poems as filler for $5 or less have nobody to sue either. People who contract with lulu.com have nobody to sue either.

&quot;Pro&quot; doesn&#039;t mean &quot;good&quot; or &quot;respected&quot; or &quot;impressive&quot;—it means &quot;worth barking it if they don&#039;t pay up.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good one!</p>
<p>Just a note on &#8220;pro&#8221; magazines and the professional associations like SFWA and HWA. These orgs base their vision of pro only on money and various other elements (circulation, frequency of publication) for the simple reason that they aren&#8217;t in the aesthetics business.  A number of self-published people have fumed over the years that all the money they make from donations for their blog stories should count, but&#8230;why? The point of joining one of these orgs is to be able to sic their grievance committees or lawyers on publishers for breaching contract, bouncing checks, etc.  So someone making money from direct donations has nobody to sue. Poets, who generally sell poems as filler for $5 or less have nobody to sue either. People who contract with lulu.com have nobody to sue either.</p>
<p>&#8220;Pro&#8221; doesn&#8217;t mean &#8220;good&#8221; or &#8220;respected&#8221; or &#8220;impressive&#8221;—it means &#8220;worth barking it if they don&#8217;t pay up.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jason Jordan</title>
		<link>http://www.robertswartwood.com/rants/reminder-money-flows-to-the-writer/#comment-559</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 05:19:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertswartwood.com/?p=597#comment-559</guid>
		<description>Good post, Robert. Narrative&#039;s been shady for a while now.

Here are more links to posts about their practices:

http://htmlgiant.com/web-journals/narrative-magazine-is-edited-by-george-w-bush/

http://htmlgiant.com/web-hype/narrative-magazine-the-gold-standard-of-online-publications-wants-5-to-read-your-work/

http://htmlgiant.com/web-journals/2007-form-990-narrative-magazine/

http://www.wetasphalt.com/?q=node/311

http://artsandpalaver.blogspot.com/2008/08/did-tom-jenks-and-carol-edgarian.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post, Robert. Narrative&#8217;s been shady for a while now.</p>
<p>Here are more links to posts about their practices:</p>
<p><a href="http://htmlgiant.com/web-journals/narrative-magazine-is-edited-by-george-w-bush/" rel="nofollow">http://htmlgiant.com/web-journals/narrative-magazine-is-edited-by-george-w-bush/</a></p>
<p><a href="http://htmlgiant.com/web-hype/narrative-magazine-the-gold-standard-of-online-publications-wants-5-to-read-your-work/" rel="nofollow">http://htmlgiant.com/web-hype/narrative-magazine-the-gold-standard-of-online-publications-wants-5-to-read-your-work/</a></p>
<p><a href="http://htmlgiant.com/web-journals/2007-form-990-narrative-magazine/" rel="nofollow">http://htmlgiant.com/web-journals/2007-form-990-narrative-magazine/</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.wetasphalt.com/?q=node/311" rel="nofollow">http://www.wetasphalt.com/?q=node/311</a></p>
<p><a href="http://artsandpalaver.blogspot.com/2008/08/did-tom-jenks-and-carol-edgarian.html" rel="nofollow">http://artsandpalaver.blogspot.com/2008/08/did-tom-jenks-and-carol-edgarian.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

